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Times of crisis Commissioner Keridis.

Your responsibility for defense and space and under your leadership.

The Commission is working to strengthen Europe's security, resilience, strategic autonomy and notably through Iris Square,

Govcom, the Security dimension of Galileo and the European Space Shield.

So we can imagine that these programs will generate growing operational needs and will require secured access to orbit.

So, Commissioner, I would like to start this round table with you and with a broader European perspective.

In the current geopolitical context, we all know.

What must now happen to turn these individual successes we just spoke about,

into reliable, responsive and sovereign European access to space at scale?

First of all, thanks a lot to organizers of this really wonderful summit,

both to President Macron and to the French and German governments.

Brought us to speak about the most important issues, and of course, when we are speaking about space in a very practical way.

Definitely perhaps Olof us will understand that launching is the basis for space,

everything that is happening in space.

Sometimes we forget, we are talking about exploration, about some other nice things,

but if we do not have launching, we shall have nothing.

So I can tell you very simply that for the Commission,

and I hope for ESA, launching is now a very clear strategic priority.

Of course, I would join in congratulations to Daniel for bringing some kind of new.

I would say historical step forward in the development of launching in Europe,

so I could conclude here my statement, but maybe I will try to elaborate a little bit more. I'm always saying that.

To make things a little bit to try to describe things a little bit simpler.

For me, this metaphor that space is a new frontier.

It's very, very hard to say, very valuable. If you look at the new frontier.

Let us say the history of new frontiers. Always transportation means were most important.

Horses, ships, railways, aviation, that was what was making those frontiers becoming closer to development,

to industrialization, and so on and so on.

So if there were not be ships,

I don't know if somebody would be able to find America or or other continents.

That is what it means transportation, and here,

if we are looking at launching transportation to space.

In Europe, of course, we need to see all the problems which we are facing now.

Definitely, when we are talking very much now about new global developments, geopolitical developments, we need to strengthen our independence, definitely launching a European launching by Europeans from the European continent,

from available European launching pads,

that is one of the priorities which we need to see as a clear priority for Olof us.

Definitely we can see that demand for launching.

From European public institutions, at least we know very well from the Commission during the next MFF,

our launching demand for launching will increase by 6 times if you compare with what we had until now.

We see a lot of new money is coming at a national level by national governments,

which are shifting defense money into space.

Definitely you know national demand for launching will increase.

Of course, there are commercial demands for launching, and there are certain countries which also want to join us,

so we can see quite a clear long term vision of how this demand for launching will increase.

Of course that means that we have very clear challenges.

How to increase launching pads capacities and how to produce enough launching vehicles in order to fulfill our demands.

What is here very much needed and what I hope that we will work very intensively on that,

of course, long term visibility.

Long term visibility of what is the demand, looking for the next 10 years, in general, what can we predict,

and that is why discussions today and some documents which will be signed,

I think it will be very important.

Definitely, in order to move ahead, we need to avoid fragmentation,

which is always a big challenge for us Europeans.

Not to lose our capabilities, our capacities, and to be strong enough in our unity.

Of course,

new technologies and reusable technologies for what will come next should be our priority.

That is why we need to invest as much as we can in innovation,

and that is why new financial models.

How we shall finance launching also will be very much important for us to discuss with competitive price and diversified suppliers and That is why We hope that Member States, who understand more and more very clearly how important space for our future,

and also for the future of our defense and security,

that they will support the proposal from the Commission to increase in the next MFF by 5 times the financing of the space program in parallel with the increase in our defense programs.

So that is where we are now with our vision and our thinking about launching as a very clear priority.

Commissioner Daniel, reaching the orbit for Spectrum, the 2nd flight was, as we said, an exceptional achievement, and today,

what are the next critical steps for ISAR to turn Spectrum's orbital success into this reliable,

repeatable and responsive launch for commercial, institutional and security customers?

So first, of course, you have to make the product exist.

So that's a big check mark right there.

And now it's all about making it better, but also scaling, and I think scaling is the difficult part actually.

Figuring out the engineering behind a rocket is just one side of the equation.

But it's at least as difficult to really scale production behind and it's something we put a lot of effort in already,

so we have vehicles 3 through 7 all in manufacturing right now.

But that is really the challenge that Europe has.

We do have rockets, but we don't have enough of them.

And so what we need to focus on collectively in Europe, not just on the launch vehicle side, but across the entire value chain,

including satellites and data and so on, is to massively increase the cadence,

massively increase the amount of satellites and data that we can actually produce and use well.

You You, you, you just mentioned it, launching is not only about the rocket itself.

I think it's, it's agreed, and it also depends on where and when you are going to be able to launch and at ISA,

ISA is expanding actually its additional launch sites.

I would like you to tell us a little bit more about your multi-site approach.

Yeah, so we have built the first spaceport in continental Europe in Norway.

We're now building a second one in Canada also to access different orbital inclinations that physically we cannot reach from Norway.

But to give an idea of the commissioner's point of how space access is relevant,

just in the last year we have had 25 countries call us and say,

please build a launch site in my country, because they cannot access space.

And again, having the rocket is one thing, but actually having the right infrastructure around is another.

And the more we look into defense applications, people realize,

especially people in government and military realize that access to space is a piece of critical infrastructure.

No spaceports, no rockets, no sovereign space programs. Mr.

Stille, let me know now, first thing for you, what will remain.

How to say it, the main constraint for you right now, today,

what is it, as you were saying, the production, the industrialization. Correct.

Even though we spent a lot of money, time and effort and resources on building a serial manufacturing capability, Stille it is the biggest constraint right now for each customer we accept into the program,

we unfortunately have to turn down around 2 customers,

so we could sell 20 times as many rockets as what we believe we can actually reasonably manufacture in the near term.

So it's Stille becoming the biggest critical element. Mr.

Julio, I'm gonna ask you a question now.

As I was saying in Vegas, in, May, Vegasy successfully launched the smile, missions.

And it was the first time that Avio was acting as a launch service operator.

So as Europe builds a more resilient launch architecture,

where do you see Vegasy bringing the greatest value in this launch architecture?

So first of all, thank you very much for your question.

Vega C is one of the European solutions to access space.

It was created together with Ariane 6 as a complementary service, so it does not fulfill all the possible purposes.

It focuses primarily on delivering Earth observation satellites to space of different types,

sometimes science applications, but mostly Earth observation for both civilian. And military use.

We have done a lot of that in the past. We continue to do so.

Next Tuesday we will launch a satellite for the European Commission and one for the European Space Agency.

So since this year we have been welcomed by France in the European Spaceport as a launch operator. It seems a small step.

It is from our point of view,

a very relevant one because it means we assume the responsibility for flight operations and therefore also Olof the liabilities related to flight worthiness and safety during flight.

We took this responsibility after many years of experience working alongside with Arianespace and working with CNSS at the launch site,

so we believe we have learned quite a bit of how it works, not everything.

We have had our own problems in the past, we have solved our problems, we have created new rockets.

I think with Vegacy Europe can count on a pan-European solution.

To Earth observation needs primarily so we can launch medium sized satellites, small satellites.

And a small constellation of Earth observation satellites, we don't do telecommunication connectivity,

which is largely what a larger rocket like Ariane can do, for example.

I underline the word pan-European because our rocket was created as a as an effort among industries from 13 different.

Member states, 13 different countries,

so we maintain many flags on our rockets because we work together and we maintain what we call sovereign capabilities.

So this is what we have to offer to Europe.

We are now working to increase the cadence of flights, as Daniel was saying.

That's the primary effort we are working on to increase as a first step the cadence of Vega to 6 per year and potentially a second step to 9 per year. We will see.

And as Commissioner Koubbelius was saying this will go.

Along with the demand, so we will do whatever the demand will ask. So our main customers are European institutions.

We will follow what they need, what they ask us, and we will try to adapt to continue providing the service.

You named it, and you are serving scientific, commercial missions and.

From your point of view, which customer needs or mission requirements are evolving the most today?

So the specific distinctive factor of Vega C and Vega before is what we call flexibility.

What does it mean flexibility we have designed a launcher that can take several satellites to space in the same flight and it can be delivered on even 3 different orbital planes.

So we sort of provide custom missions as opposed to somewhat standardized flights so it is one type of service again it doesn't solve 100% of the needs,

but from this point of view we have demonstrated a couple of things that.

Almost no other rocket has so such a large flexibility in delivering into orbit thanks also to the reignitable upper stage and also an unprecedented accuracy in orbital injection.

Now this would seem to you like a technical aspect.

It is not because the more you are accurate in delivering something to orbit, the longer it will stay in orbit.

So for those who need a service for years, if you can stay 6 more months or maybe another year, that's value. It's, it's a lot of money.

So that's what we have to offer basically. Thank you.

Now David, Ariane 6 has demonstrated its capabilities.

There is no debate and as for all your colleagues, I would say the next challenge is scale.

So what are the priorities for you for increasing cadence and supporting Europe's long term needs?

Hi everybody, it's a pleasure to be with you today.

And you know, 2 weeks ago with my team, we were in C. And we launched a very advanced satellite.

Weather forecast satellite that will enable to alert European citizens in advance before extreme climate. Event, a satellite that saved life.

It was a success and it was our 9th success in a row and it was really a great mission.

And you know, one week later I was home watching the TV and following the Spectrum launch. It was a great launch. Congrats.

This is really an achievement, I think, for you and for your company,

and next week Julio and his team will launch 3 European rockets in 1 month. This is not a coincidence. This is not luck for me.

It shows that something is happening currently in Europe.

Of course this is the beginning, but I think there is no way back. I think we are deeply changing.

So about Ariane, as you said, we are in the middle of the ramp up. You mentioned it, Daniel.

A ramp up is a challenge by itself.

We Stille have to reach the full cadence. It will be next year.

The good news is that we have a huge backlog today and tomorrow here in Paris we'll announce 10 more launches,

which confirms the extraordinary dynamic around RN 6.

And after that, the next big challenge will be to launch Erie Square because thanks to the leadership of the commissioner and the whole DGD team,

Erie Square is becoming a reality and launching also. Sovereign projects coming.

We know that Germany, for instance, is extremely ambitious, so we are in the middle of the ramp up.

It's going very well, but the question of scale, the question of cadence is the next big topic,

and we are actively working on it to be sure that the sovereign European projects are launched by sovereign European launchers.

For me it's obvious this is what happens everywhere.

Else in the world, and I think this is a historic moment for Europe.

Mr And I will ask the same question to Daniel what is the main bottleneck for you today? Same thing, production capacity, suppliers, launch sites.

I would say that today the main topic is the market.

Of course we have to do our job on the industrial level and so on,

but you know in this field in rockets we talk a lot about technology, satellites, and so on, and it's good, of course, but. We don't discuss enough is the market. The client. Things are moving historically.

The demand public demand in Europe is quite small with the projects I mentioned, I think will totally change of scale,

and I think it's a unique occasion to also change the way we interact with the public stakeholders.

What worked in the US with the 10 or 20 years ago was disability.

To purchase batches of launches to give visibility to industrialists because as industrial player,

we are ready to take risk. We are ready to invest. This is what we do.

We are eager to conquer commercial market share outside of Europe.

But simply to do it at scale we need more visibility than today.

And I think that with the upcoming MFF with all those projects we can consolidate this market and I can guarantee you that with this market.

Those players and other players will be able to go much further, which is the ambition.

Before jumping into the topic you just touched about the market,

I just want to shortly talk to you about sovereignty because it is a word we are using a lot and a lot and more and more.

And what does Europe need today to guarantee itself in order to claim sovereign access to space?

So I'm sorry, but I'm coming back to David first.

Ariane has guaranteed Europe's autonomous access to space for decades.

So what remains true today in terms of sovereignty and what has changed?

What is interesting is that we have been advocating for sovereignty, for sovereign access to space for decades, as you mentioned.

And for a long time some people thought this war was a bit theoretical.

Sovereignty, it was seen as something, a concept, political, and so on.

I think that now, especially after the war in Ukraine, things have totally changed now,

and I think Commissioner Kubilius, you mentioned this several times.

You cannot win a war if you are not strong in space.

I think this is totally new, and it means that sovereignty in space, sovereignty from space, is the next big topic.

A part of sovereignty is to master in Europe the different segments of the.

Of the space sector, rockets, satellite operations, and so on.

And on this topic, I think we have the good ingredients. One thing which is missing is scale.

It's not only about mastering the technology, it's about executing again and again faster and faster.

On this topic we can do more in Europe and we should do more.

One last topic which matters a lot is the question of spaceport. Now we have several ones in Europe.

I think it's good in terms of resiliency of the ability to reach that from different orbits and so on. It's positive, of course.

We have a special links with, is one of the biggest spaceports in the world.

This is a civil spaceport, which means we can.

Handle any payload and you can be sure that we will not try to look at what is inside and at the same time it's heavily guarded,

which in the current time is key.

So for me spaceport is a critical infrastructure really and this is a topic we should have a look at it because if you have the rocket and not the spaceport,

you are not really sore. Thank you very much.

I think it rings a bell for you, Daniel.

And after reaching orbit today,

what does Spectrum Stille need to prove to become a trusted option for responsive and European institutional and security missions?

So from a purely technical perspective, de facto have demonstrated responsiveness because actually from a vehicle perspective,

doing the launch operations is an element that's actually just a very short amount of time.

So as long as we have a vehicle ready, we can launch it basically within.

2 to 3 days here it comes down to scaling as always.

If you can launch one rocket, it's a nice press release, but it doesn't actually get a full capability for Olof Europe, for none of us.

So it's really just always comes down to how many rockets can you build and same for sovereignty.

Having European built rockets, if we can only launch a few of them, is not sovereignty.

Sovereignty comes when we can build and launch many of them, and we have to launch at least at a rate in the same order of magnitude as other people in other countries do,

and right now we are lingering in a one digit percentage of what other countries are doing,

and as long as we do not have a massive scale compared to that, I would not call the European launch sector sovereign yet.

Thank you Giulio, you mentioned the flexibility of vegacy, and so I think flexibility is a part of the answer,

but today what makes vegacy an important part of Europe's sovereign access to space. Today.

But, you know, I have something to add to what Daniel said about sovereignty.

Sovereignty first of all rests with the knowledge of technology because with investment we can fix capacity issues. We can have more launch pads.

By the way, we already have several launch pads at the European Spaceport that are available.

Some are being made available for further launches,

so I don't think we will be in the near future capacity constraints by the launch infrastructure.

But a lot of of sovereignty stays with having knowledge on each and every technology because the day you miss a certain component that you don't know anything about,

then you are grounded, OK.

So this unfortunately happened to us and luckily there was someone in France who helped us with an available technology in partnership that was made available to us,

otherwise we would have not been able to launch anymore.

So I think first of all we need to make sure we close all the gaps with technological knowledge that we don't stay dependent on non-European parties or some other parties,

and that we can do that internally.

Then in capacity, as Daniel was saying, we need to invest.

We need to explain to the public that first of all, space launch is anything but cheap. It is expensive.

It requires a lot of money because this infrastructure has a huge cost, but sovereignty, conversely, has a huge advantage to the people of Europe in particular,

because it means we would be free to do whatever we need from a defense point of view,

a civilian point of view, and we do not need to ask anything from anybody.

If we want, we can certainly use other non-European solutions, but we do have this capability.

Vegas solves a portion of this problem, not all. We need more cadence.

We are working alongside with the European Space Agency and Ariane Group,

Arianespace to increase the cadence of both Ariane and Vega such that we can.

Grow in this degree of sovereignty every every month I would say,

and this we will do in the very next few years with effort and I think both Arian and Vega have demonstrated to be able already to to ramp up.

Mr Commissioner, having heard the three perspectives of you as a panelists,

what must Europe absolutely be able to guarantee for itself?

It was my first question.2, if it wants to truly space to space,

what and when should we do it?

Well, I agree with what was said before. Definitely, you know Sovereignty is key.

Those who know global geopolitical developments, and especially if we are looking into the future to the end of the century with rising new economic powers like China,

India, we need to be able to be sovereign. What does it mean? I agree absolutely. It means first of all technological sovereignty.

Second, what is, in my view,

is very important is sovereignty very much relates to the size. How to say power of size.

Are we able to be, you know, In space,

a power which represents 450 million people and more than €20 trillion GDP. That is what sovereignty is.

If you are small, you can declare that you are very much sovereign,

but definitely you will not fulfill the mission which is very important for the whole of Europe. Thanks a lot.

And here comes exactly what we are now trying to do. And now discussions are going on.

Our teams are working with governments, with defense ministers,

with industries on the program or platform which we call the European Space Shield.

We consider as a possibility to have a comprehensive framework covering all existing and planned space capabilities,

both available in Europe, governmental, military and commercial.

In order to build a bridge between all those capabilities which are developed on different levels.

Because that, in my view, exactly brings us the possibility.

Not to be strong at a national level, but also to be strong at European level,

and that we see as a very crucial, especially that.

My portfolio is double, it's space and defense. I was always so.

The challenge that when Member States are starting to spend more money on defense, there is a temptation to go alone.

I was always saying, well, in space this is not a problem.

Now I see that it is coming, so that is why it is good that money is coming.

I am not against that, but if money is creating a temptation to go alone, that is not so good.

We need to really spend a lot of our efforts to keep this unity at European level.

To make our systems interoperable, to have a comprehensive framework,

and that will make us really ready to be sovereign and to be independent.

Thank you very much, Commissioner,

thank you very much for your participation and your tendency.

I think it is now time to close this round table, and I think we can agree that sovereign access to space is,

as we said, estimate about resilience, but it is obviously a very long term commitment.

We hope we will manage to do it. Thank you very much. Thank you.