And a very warm welcome back to the stage, the NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte. Thank.

Well, we are at a very important segment of this gathering,

and I have witnessed your excitement, Mr.

Secretary General, during the signing ceremonies and also when you are,

you were announcing some of the initiatives on the part of NATO in engaging with industries.

It is, now, your time as two leaders of both NATO and the European Union.

To have a conversation, and it was gratifying for me to see both leaders co-authoring an article for The Economist enumerating some of the ideas that you share,

and in the article,

one thing that struck me was that you argue that Europe's era to outsource much of its defense is over.

And that deterrence is no longer with military capabilities,

but also having our industries to produce more in a very speedy fashion and in a better way.

So, we still consider, of course, capabilities as something important.

Nevertheless, you may perhaps both, discuss a bit, on, the industrial, capacity, innovation, the ecosystem,

and most important, resilience, which, has become a currency, of, security in our time.

So perhaps, President, von der Leyen, if you can start, how you see, the new environment in which,

defense industry has become so important for all of us, both NATO and the European Union.

Thank you so much for having us here.

This is a great opportunity indeed to show how closely we are working together, the European Union and NATO.

Actually, I was just thinking today, one of the reasons is,

my dear friend Mark, because we have both experiences on both sides.

You were for 14 or 16 years, 14 years Prime Minister, so he was in the European Council,

and I was for 5 years Defense Minister, so I was sitting in NATO.

Now it's the other way around,

and therefore we know both how important a close cooperation between the European Union and NATO is.

Second, I just listened, to the panel before us.

And It's very clear that all Member States of the European Union and allies have one single set of forces,

so they assign these single set of forces either to NATO missions or to EU missions, UN missions or a coalition of the willing.

But to make this possible, what we need is interoperability and of of course in this geostrategic and geopolitical environment,

we need a massive surge in defense investment.

And here the European Union is indeed massively stepping up.

We have our Rearm Europe program,

which mobilizes up to €800 billion by 2030.

In this program is EUR €150 billion for joint procurement.

And not to forget, the next long term budget will have €131 billion for military capabilities,

plus €17 billion for military mobility,

which is also of utmost importance streets, bridges, ports, airports, etc.

The infrastructure also has to be here on the European side.

And on SAFE is for us very important, as I said, the joint procurement. Here we have good news.

We have now 10 agreements worth €100 billion.

SAFE is Per design open to partners and other countries, 35% of the cost components can go outside the European Union, but of course 65% have to be in the European Union,

and that is the point how we strengthen the defense industrial base because with these taxpayers' money we want of course a return on investment. We want good jobs in Europe.

We want research and development in Europe, so that is important for us. My last sentence on this.

The door is more open than the 35% for countries outside the European Union.

If there is a security and defense agreement signed,

Canada is the first one to have done this, so these possibilities are also there. Wide spectrum of investment.

Well, Secretary General, if you can, also, share your perspectives.

Well, basically I, I, I totally agree that the, the great thing is we know each other so long and of course there is a clear division of labor we both agree on.

So, that's why we can strengthen each other's roles.

So NATO is about command and control capabilities and standards.

Basically all the other things have to be handled by Europe and the EU of course is crucial there and 23 of NATO allies are also in the European Union,

so most of the NATO allies are also a member of the European Union.

And when you look at issues like indeed making sure the money is there,

the 800 billion euros, a crucial program, but also when it comes to indeed military mobility.

When it comes to societal resilience, when it comes to developing the defense industrial base,

this is all what Europe, the EU is working on.

You appointed Andrius Kubilius, the first defense commissioner, I think, in the history of the European Commission.

He is working on that with a specific focus under your leadership,

and I think that's all evidence, and we've got to do this because the threat is there.

We cannot continue as we did, being over reliant on the United States.

We need a much stronger Europe and a stronger NATO, and we can only get there when we work together seamlessly as one,

using and leveraging each other's strength, and that's what we are doing.

We all know that it is important for Europeans to strengthen their strategic responsibility.

I rather prefer using strategic responsibility rather than autonomy in order to have the transatlantic bonds as strong as ever.

While doing so, of course,

NATO is most appreciative of the initiatives taken by the European Union.

You mentioned SAFE, of course,

there are many others European Defence Fund, PESCO, EDIRRPA, RARM.

And of course, in creating capabilities, translating cash to capabilities, the European Union needs to look not only to the capabilities of the Member States,

and Europe is more than the European Union,

and I would like to ask you, President Ursula von der Leyen.

Since the audience here is also including Turkish participants, how you see the involvement of non-EU allies, you mentioned Canada,

but there are others, including Turkey,

a way forward to properly involve Turkey in such projects if you can.

Touch upon it, I'm sure they will be quite receptive.

Turkey is one of the largest armed forces within NATO, of very big importance,

and has always played an important role in the alliance, but also of course in our relationship with the European Union.

And as I said, if you only look at safe,

which are the €150 billion 35%, that's a lot, is open.

To work, for example, together with Turkey,

but the 800 billion up to 2030 is the decision of the member states.

How to invest their defense allocation in order to fill the gaps,

so there's a wide opportunity to have a very close cooperation with each other.

For us, it's very important to be totally aligned with the NATO targets because As I said,

the one single set of forces, we know where the gaps are and we have to work very closely together.

So, for example, the NDPP, the NATO defense planning process,

is for us very important so that we fill the gaps in a cost efficient manner. But I want to add another point.

We also want to work very closely with Ukraine.

The panel before us described the phenomenal innovative power that Ukraine has, and this we have to use because we have to step up in our defense capabilities fast,

at a reasonable cost and smart, and Ukraine has proven all this in the last years under the pressure of the war.

This is the reason why the European Union, for the first time,

opened an innovation office in Kiev to have direct contact with the Kiev industrial base.

Secondly, we are encouraging our companies to go into joint venture with Ukrainian companies, and thirdly, we as a European Union,

are working on a longer term partnership in order to look at how to boost our cutting edge.

In our defense industrial base in the European Union, together with Ukraine.

We can learn a lot from Ukraine,

and we have to learn a lot because they are not only highly innovative but also battlefield experienced.

So this whole picture shows how much we are stepping up here together with NATO because we share the same interests and we share the same values and we know what's up.

In your remarks told that the priority for Ankara summit would be also to have a proper follow-up of the Hague summit meeting with the decisions taken there.

Of course, when, European allies elevate their contributions in burden sharing.

It should not, translate itself to decoupling, transatlantic bond,

to maintain it is of vital importance, but, talking about the defense industrial capacity.

There are a few earlier initiatives like the Diana Innovation Fund,

but you also today touched upon some new ones.

What would be the priorities for NATO in the years ahead to focus and deliver,

and what the industrial community could expect and what do you expect from them?

Basically, the priority is for our defense industrial base in Europe, in Canada, in the US to produce more. We are making progress. It's really getting much better.

You see in Europe more production lines, more factories being opened.

I mentioned in my short speech the ammunition, which is really,

when it comes to the output, it's a huge increase in production.

But you need this across the defense industrial base in, again, in Europe, Canada, and,

and in the US, because Russia has the whole of its economy now on a war footing.

So the car industry in Russia is producing for the war effort.

And that means that we've got to do this also in Europe, Canada, and the US.

And what we are seeing at the moment.

Is a transformation which is unparalleled since the end of the Cold War where Europe is taking so much more responsibility for the conventional defense of NATO,

of this part of NATO territory, with still a strong US presence going forward, both nuclear and conventional. Aan.

Maar het is het is NATO transformed where the US has a strong partner in Europe.

Much stronger than it was only 4 or 5 years ago. Therefore, the whole of NATO is stronger.

As the German defense minister said the other day to maintain, to stay transatlantic. We have to become more European. And that's exactly what is happening.

You will see some of the key The leadership roles in NATO now being taken over by Europeans, you see the Europeans taking the lead on Ukraine.

And the support for Ukraine, we still crucial supply from the US but paid for by European and Canadian allies.

We see it again with some of the commands in NATO taking over by Europeans.

We see the foreign land forces more and more Europeanized. We're still a US presence, and also.

Three centuries Baltic, Arctic, and Eastern, very much European dominated. This is what we need.

So this cooperation between NATO, the European Union is leading to a transformation which again is unparalleled,

and we need it because in the end it makes us stronger.

There is a geopolitical transformation in general, with its unfortunate rupture, and certainly it is necessary to have a transformation of mindset, and it requires perhaps,

as many have touched upon already, not to see governments as the only stakeholders,

but it should be a combination of contributions from others including industry.

So we used to talk more about whole of government approach,

perhaps on You may talk a bit about a whole of society approach. So perhaps we may start with you.

Yeah, the whole of society approach is very important because we do not only see the conventional or let's say the military threat out there.

But the whole hybrid attacks that we are suffering from are targeting towards society.

For example, if you take foreign interference and manipulation of information, internet based, this is a big issue,

which is targeting society's vulnerability and where you have to build resilience,

and this is something which we are working intensively on too, to set the record straight.

To convince with facts and figures, to be clear in all these debates, internet based,

what the truth is and what the right facts and figures are, and you can win these battles.

We've seen this in different scenarios that you can really convince people.

If you look at the Eurobarometer measuring opinion.

People say very clearly that one of their top worries is security and resilience,

so the Europeans have understood how important it is to defend our democracy,

to defend our values, to stand up for freedom and for peace.

So this approach of the whole of society is the precondition to be successful. I completely agree.

And let me just give one example, Turkey,

how you have organized your defense industry with the Turkish Defense Industry Secretariat directly reporting it to the president.

You have about 3000 defense industrial companies working closely together, small, medium sized, the bigger ones.

Basically exporting all over NATO territory and of course producing for Turkey itself and also exporting outside NATO.

I think that's a model which is very interesting and I know that some other allies are studying it to see whether they could implement it in their country.

So it's just one example of a whole society approach when it comes to the defense industry.

And more generally, it is indeed as Ursula saying,

it is the realization that Europeans have that the first task of government is to keep our country safe.

The second task is to have a strong economy. You need both to deter the Russians.

We need strong economies, healthy finances connected to strong economies, but first of all, we have to defend ourselves.

It's the first task of every government, and the threat is there.

Russia working with North Korea, Iran, and China. Let's not be naive.

So this, forum, in fact, is a showcase of this interaction,

strong interaction between governments and industry. I see the clock.

It seems that we have come to the end of, this important conversation, and, once again,

thank you for sharing your views, and it's always a pleasure to see both of you. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Ambassador, and thank you so much to our guest

Secretary General Mark Rutte, and also President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen.