MEPs debate (part 3)
This transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.
The next speaker is Mr.
Thank you, Commissioner, colleagues, the European Union and Ukraine want peace today.
If Russia really wants peace, as is being said by the supporters of Russia, they could. The aggression.
Even today, the results of the first negotiation round, however, shows that Russia is not ready for peace.
That's why the sanctions should be carried out strictly,
and they should stop the financing of the European war machine.
9 ships were hit in the Black Sea, with more than 30 seamen who died.
And we see those loopholes in applying the sanctions.
This finances the war and the loan of 90 billion is important,
but we have to do more.
We need to use the frozen assets, we have to.
Switch them to the mechanism of the European Union, the facility,
so Russia can pay for the damage done, and we should decrease the financing of this horrible war. Thank you, Mr. Nix.
Thank you, to the skeptics and doubters, I would like to say that sanctions are having an effect on Russia's ability to continue waging its murderous war,
but obviously they could have a much greater effect if properly implemented and further strengthened.
Sanctions are an important element in our effort to help Ukraine win the war, but it's just one element.
Others include supporting or continuing supporting Ukraine,
maintaining a broad international coalition on the side of Ukraine and ensuring accountability for war crimes.
The war will inevitably end at the negotiating table, but we should stop lamenting Europe's irrelevance because we are not irrelevant. We are the strongest supporter of Ukraine.
We will play an important role in the post war reconstruction, and Ukraine will be a full member of our Union.
We will have a place at the table when it comes to making sure that the war ends on terms favorable to Ukraine,
but we should be very careful and not rush to a negotiating table without a clear strategy in a situation where this might grant legitimacy to Russia's totally illegitimate imperial aspirations and their efforts to demolish the foundations of European security architecture. You have a blue carton, Mr. Riper.
I guess you take it Finally Thank you,
I thank my colleague for accepting the blue card.
I have a very simple question do you think it is efficient that the Member States implement the sanctions instead of the EU directly? Obviously, we should follow the.
Rules of the Treaty base of the European Union, there is a Procedure for Ensuring the proper implementation of these sanctions,
I do think that Member States have the tools at their disposal.
Obviously it's a political decision, a consensus decision to apply sanctions,
and we should trust our Member States to be in a position to implement the sanctions that they have voted for at the Council table.
And just let me inform you before giving the further next speaker that I'm closing HDI. There are 13, requests.
We'll see how we're doing with the time.
I will try to take everybody, but I cannot guarantee it, it's gonna be tight. Please, Mr. Pereira.
Europe is applying strict sanctions on Russia, yet at the same time it is importing Russian energy products either directly or indirectly,
which allows Putin to continue his destructive war.
At the same time,
the EU is asking its citizens and SMEs to tighten their belt further and show solidarity to fund the costs of this policy.
In the capitals of Europe, people are taking to the streets because they're in despair at spiraling costs.
There is a crackdown on this, and there is a request for the people to comply with practices that are only partially respected by the politicians themselves,
so we see very serious cases of human rights not being respected in Ukraine.
Blacklists of European citizens and European politicians in Ukraine. I think we have to wake up. See you next.
Colleagues, this year is the deadliest year for Ukrainian civilians since the beginning of Russia's full-scale invasion,
and in Europe we know perfectly well how Russia finances its killing machine. First, fossil fuels.
Russia still earns EUR €625 million of it every single day. Secondly, shadow fleets.
A huge amounts of Russian oil is still transported by ships that are either owned or insured by many of the EU countries that even proclaim their support for Ukraine,
so that is not an effective sanctions policy,
it is clearly a loophole and it undermines our collective impact. But you know who is even worse? Those who do not even try.
Those who cynically lie that Russia is merely defending itself and that we in the EU are actually the aggressors, and we've heard it today,
they are among us, they are sitting in the governments of the Member States, they are even speaking here.
So to those who want to repeat Putin's lies, go and stay in Moscow. The next speaker is Mr. Vans. It's not that hard. Can we be honest for one second?
While negotiation attempts to end Russia's war are happening, we're not even at the table. Putin is setting the terms.
Trump and his cronies are more focused on the money they can make than making a lasting peace.
Unless Europeans learn to speak with one voice, it will never be heard. Ukrainians and Europeans will pay the price.
We've been calling for this for years, and it's never been so urgent.
Zelensky also asked us to hurry up and appoint someone to help negotiate peace.
If the US can be represented by corrupt businessmen and Russia can be represented by war criminals,
surely we can find someone and give them a mandate. Anyone, stop, call us, Pawl, you.
The Russians want nothing more than to exclude us from these talks, and right now they have an easy excuse. Europe can't agree on who to send.
So national leaders, get into a room, lock the door and don't come out until you pick someone. Thank you.
Dequim, taras, blue card, sorry, I forgot almost you have a blue card for Mr. Seer. Mr.
Why do you think we haven't picked someone yet? Mr. Yes, that's a very good question. So why haven't we picked anyone yet?
I think A lot of our national leaders are stuck in a 20th century mindset where nationalism dictates what they think is the right thing to do,
but nationalism for European countries right now is an illusion. The only real sovereignty we can have.
Is sovereignty that is truly European, and until our national leaders realize that,
they will not step over their own shadow, they will not find the courage.
But Europeans know this, and that's an interesting thing because Europeans want us to speak with one voice, as all the opinion polls show. Thank you. Mr. Clausen, please.
No When Russia sends its suicide drones and ballistic missiles into Ukraine, one thing is for sure their deadly machines only function because they are filled with western parts,
parts which they, in spite of sanctions, seem to have no problem getting a hold of. We talk a great deal about support.
But if we really want to protect Ukrainian civilians, there are clearly two things we should do today rather than tomorrow.
First of all, ensure that Russia can no longer get Western chips or other electronics for their weapons production, and secondly,
we must be a lot better at restricting Russia's ability to wage war, hit them where it hurts, in their wallet.
Unfortunately, we only need to go back to the month of October, when the EU removed sanctions against Russia. Instead of strengthening them. When we remove sanctions. When Russia can buy parts here.
To produce weapons and use them against Ukraine. That is not protecting the Ukrainian people. We need to stop doing that.
And let me inform you, we have to be more strict because we're really tight on time.
And let me give the floor to Madame Wiesel. 6. Mr.
Last winter, Russia deliberately plunged Ukrainian civilians into darkness and freezing cold,
and it's doing it again this year.
It's gone as far as to target a substation that supplies a nuclear power station,
and a few hours just after the end of talks in Abu Dhabi, Russian ballistic missiles rained down on Kiev. Is that what Moscow means by dialogue?
We need to drain these funds that are funding this war, every barrel sold by the shadow fleet,
every component that transits a third country, every crypto asset transaction funds the next strikes.
We need to sanction those that facilitate circumvention.
We need to control the shadow fleet properly.
We need to adopt the next package without delay. This war.
Is costing Moscow a lot more than it brings back in,
but Putin will only stop when continuing it will threaten his own power.
We must force him to make that choice from outside via our sanctions so that pressure mounts from within. Thank you. Mr. The next speaker is Mrs. Fritzon. Thank you. Putin's brutal war against Ukraine is continuing.
The bombs are falling here and now over the residential areas, hospitals,
schools, and families live in a constant state of fear.
Today,
we in Europe are buying more oil and gas at a higher price than we give to Ukraine in support. That is hypocrisy.
Once and for all, we need to free ourselves from Russian fossil fuels. We have taken the decision.
And Europe should never contribute to the financing of Putin's war.
We in the S&D Group ask for even tighter sanctions.
We need to close the loopholes, stop the Russian shadow fleet, and ensure that the sanctions are fully implemented. We have to be clear. Ukraine's struggle is also our struggle.
We have to stand up for the Ukrainian people, and we have to do that together. The EU has to show the way. Mr. Mr.
In this hemicycle, we need to look to the liberals, we need to look to the left,
show me someone who has been put on the list.
And who cannot enter the EU because they collaborated with Putin's criminals.
How is it possible that I asked for Gerhard Schröder to be put on that list,
but the left and part of the EPP oppose that, so.
Let's look at that You know, look at your political groups.
This man was responsible for Nord Stream, and then he just attended Vladimir Putin's birthday party. That should weigh heavily on your consciences.
You are responsible if you were in the previous terms, and history will judge you for this,
but we need to have action because you are acting like Putin's marionettes.
Mrs, if we look at these past 5 years of warfare,
more than 1.5 million people have lost their lives or have been injured. Last month, 45,000 people were killed. Russia lost.
As many soldiers last month as it did over the course of 10 years in Afghanistan, but Putin continues to recruit,
uses these people as cannon fodder, and he wants to apply the same to all of Europe.
We have to ramp up pressure, not lessen pressure.
In the 22nd sanction package,
we have to focus on the sectors which generate the most revenue for Putin, i.e., finance and energy.
We need to ensure that we crack down on Sanctions avoidance,
and I say to the Commission, don't be afraid.
In the expert group there are solid, legally solid solutions that have been put forward.
Russia must pay for this war out of its own pocket, not us.
Thank you, not one cent of European money should finance Russia's illegal war of aggression against Ukraine.
Our next sanctions package must hit Russia where it hurts its energy revenues,
financial sector and networks enabling circumvention.
Russia weaponized supply,
attacks Ukraine's energy infrastructures and circumvents sanctions to keep its revenue flowing.
Croatia offers alternative energy supply through Yanov and the Kirk LNG terminal.
We must support investment that allows Europe to cut its independence on Russia.
We must also dismantle the shadow fleet's business model by targeting the companies managing its vessels,
alongside coordinating maritime enforcement.
Russia must pay for the destruction it has caused.
We must advance a legally sound solution to use frozen Russian assets to support Ukraine.
Every loophole we close reduces Russia's capacity to fund the next attack.
That must be the measure of our sanctions. Jaquim terraso prosimakouli sapachi.
Ma, when Ukraine is being offered conditions that it cannot accept, but this is actually only rewarding the aggressor,
and here in this Parliament we have to be very clear the European Union must sanction the Kremlin.
We have to focus also on the prevention of circumvention of sanctions through proxies and channels in third countries. The sanctions had its consequences.
The access to the Russian market has diminished, as well as foreign investment, and the costs of the economy have grown.
It is key that the European Union continues to act in a coordinated manner and that it continues to exert pressure.
Regardless of the requests from some Member States, including in this Parliament,
if we want to become again dependent on Russian gas, this would be a strategic mistake.
We can also not expect to collaborate with this regime.
The trust has been destroyed and Russia as it is today will always be a threat to Europe. Thank you very much. The next speaker is Mr. Ts.
Thank you Commissioner The EU is fully committed to imposing sanctions on Russia that will cut off the sources financing its illegal war,
it needs to take two major steps.
First, close the northern corridor crossing Russian territory to European trade, and second,
actively redirect commercial flows between Europe and Asia towards the middle corridor.
As long as goods traveling between Europe and Asia continues to transit through Russia, We continue directly or indirectly to Russia's economic resilience,
generate transit revenues for Moscow and maintain strategic dependencies on a country that has chosen aggression over peace.
The middle corridor connecting Europe and Asia through the Black Sea region,
the South Caucasus and Central Asia offers a viable strategic alternative that would strengthen regional connectivity while reducing Russia's geopolitical leverage over both Europe and China.
Let's turn sanctions into a geopolitical strategic opportunity.
Close the northern corridor, strengthen the middle corridor, and stop financing the Russian war. Thank you.
Thank you, on 3 November,
Russia launched its largest attack of the year against the Ukrainian energy system.
At the same time, it continues to export its oil.
Using shipping that is insured by European insurers, the ban on Shipping is still awaiting the G7 approval, because we need to reactivate this, every single time that anyone is removed from the sanctions list,
whenever the member states close their eyes to European companies that continue to do illegal business with Russia,
well, they are helping Putin's imperialism. We have to stress this. I think the era.
Has come to an end when there was a kind of bartering of balance between human rights and trade and peace.
Peace, progress, and human rights are three objectives which are indissolubly linked.
If you barter away one of them, you lose everything. The next speaker is Mr. Pascual de la Parte. Mr.
Thank you, it's the 5th year of war in Ukraine. We now see confusing and divisive proposals.
There's a confusion between negotiations on peace with the creation of a security structure in Europe. Let's not fall into this trap. Let's be clear-eyed about our goals.
We want a real ceasefire in Ukraine as soon as possible, and we want to look at the current.
Contact line We must continue to provide military,
political and financial support to Ukraine for as long as it is needed.
Besides this,
we must say to Russia that we will ramp up sanctions and that we will use the frozen assets in European banks to fund the reconstruction of Ukraine.
Third, we need to have negotiations from a position of strength. We haven't been at the negotiating table.
But what is an issue is what is important is that Ukraine be allowed to join the EU in the future. The chair has cut off the speaker.
We're running out and we're running really seriously late. I'm sorry. Terra poros panic sings. The next speaker is Mrs. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
The peace talks in Abu Dhabi haven't offered much hope for an end to the war in Ukraine,
but that's what we want, but we must not forget who we are dealing with. Russia attacked. Ukraine.
It is Kidnapped minors, it's violating international law and it's showing it has no interest whatsoever in peace.
That's why it's important that Europe keep sanctions against the Kremlin and should not bow to pressure from Trump,
who wants to end this war at any cost at the expense of Ukraine, but also Europe.
We must remember that Europe that funds does not only fund missiles and ammunition.
But all of the information that's being used against our societies through bots,
disinformation campaigns, what they seek to do is destabilize our countries.
Undermine trust in our institutions and weaken us.
This is why we need to cut off all sources of funding.
For Russia, both on the Ukrainian front and also on our mobile screens, thank you. Mr.
Colleagues, in 1940, Winston Churchill said, if we don't succeed,
the entire world will be thrown into the abyss of a dark era.
Well, the war is not just a war against Ukraine, it's a war against the security order of our whole continent.
Well look at the shipping issues, shipping routes are threatened,
commercial ships are being sunk, it affects Romania.
It's not just a question of freedom of navigation, but it's also the freedom of our citizens.
European money should in no case go into Russia's war machine. We need stronger sanctions.
Against Russian energy, against the shadow fleet, and against the Russian military industrial complex. This has to work in practice.
If we leave any door badly closed,
then that opens the way to drones and attacks.
Our decisiveness today will be the peace of tomorrow.
The next speaker is it's about our democracy. Our common security.
So that is why Denmark has just given its new sanction pact to Ukraine,
EUR €642 million and I hope more people will agree to increase support for it.
We need to hurt Russia in their wallet.
So we have to sharpen the sanctions, close the loopholes and stop those who are helping Russia. We need to do more.
This isn't just a war for Ukrainians, it's also our security, Slava Ukraine. Mr. Kelly is next. To rush. You're very welcome back here again.
Minister Harkin, you are very close to me and a great minister. I'd like Putin to the table.
Donald Trump thinks it's by offering vast concessions, Ukrainian land,
sanctions relief and a say in Europe's future security. This is not the way. Resistance and sanctions are the answer.
Ukraine is doing the first part, but the European Union and our partners must do more on the second.
Before the Iranian war, Russia's vital oil and gas revenues had fallen by almost 50%.
However, the supply shock resulting from the Iran war has handed massive energy windfall profits to Putin,
which, alongside the US sanction waivers, has been worth tens of billions for his war effort. We have no excuse.
We need to ban Russian oil imports to build on our work to phase out gas, Neil Daraging.
We have no other choice if we are serious about standing with Ukraine, along with Ukraine. Ms. Thank you, colleagues.
If you want to negotiate with Putin, it's like playing poker against someone who's just cheating.
And it's true that we don't have a table at the negotiating table, but we have to strengthen our hand.
Ukraine has been defending itself against Russian aggression for 12 years, and there have been endless talks but no outcomes.
But now we cannot allow ourselves to lose hope or courage.
We also have to deal with the fallout from this war.
We've had to fight long and hard for a place at the table, and now we have to improve our hand,
and by our hand I mean the frozen assets, I mean the sanctions. We have to play our hand well.
We're not just talking about the future of Ukraine.
The very future of Europe is at stake too.
Button Thank you very much for accepting this blue card.
You are from the Netherlands And When it comes to lists of payments,
I'm not sure whether you are aware there's not one poll, but there are politicians from the Netherlands, Austria, and Germany.
I'd like to know whether in your country.
You talk about how Western European politicians have ended up on these lists, because sanctions are one thing,
but history and truth will show how Putin was promoted from Western Europe,
and that's important to know. Mr. Thank you for your question.
In the Netherlands, we continue to provide unwavering support for Ukraine because our security is at stake as well. Thank you. The que terra porosimkhuta.
I give the floor to the next speaker, Mr. The enemy is in the east. Let's look at this head on.
Russia is warring waging a hybrid war against Europe.
The markets online sabotage has become a daily occurrence from the book to the Rhine.
And this affects all Europeans, and this is why we need to apply more sanctions and defend ourselves.
The Kremlin only understands the language of strength, and we need to have unity from the left, the center, and the right. We need to have one voice.
We need to remember what to do with frozen Russian assets.
We need to be able to protect ourselves from Russian propaganda.
We need to have a strong European Union that speaks with one voice so that it will not be defeated.
I repeat, the enemy is in the east and it's called Russia. Sorry, the book card was not accepted. Let me give the floor to Mr. Terras.
Thank you, EU sanctions against Russia have had a significant impact on the economy of the aggressor.
At the same time, the imposition of sanctions has been very episodic, very fragmented.
If sanctions are our hammer to defeat Russia, then in reality, this hammer has been used rather for patting Russia on the back.
This has allowed Russia to find different ways to bypass sanctions and relentlessly fill its war chest with trade through third countries.
The Russian shadow fleet and its supporting infrastructure need to be significantly targeted.
Introduce stricter sanctions against companies that encourage Russia to circumvent sanctions.
All dependence on EU countries on Russian energy carriers must be stopped. It is deeply.
Schizophrenic when Member States pay hundreds of billions to Russia so that it can kill Ukrainians and prepare for war against the rest of Europe. Will you accept the blue card?
OK, so that concludes this part of the debate, and we move to catch the eye.
Looking at the time, I will be able to only take one round of speakers per group, I'm afraid,
because you don't want all the colleagues coming for the vote to be disturbing the debate and being angry and bit late. So let me start with colleague Jonsvik. Thank you.
Ukraine should have a place at the negotiating table, and it should be able to arrive at an agreement with Russia. This is what Mrs.
Zdanowska, our colleague from the extreme right, So let's just imagine that somebody comes home.
Takes our child and keeps their child for 5 years, and says that at the end of the day we could sign an agreement.
But they're never actually going to give the child back.
Well, would somebody in this room say that that's a good peace agreement? No, of course we can't accept that.
We cannot give a reward to the aggressor for aggressing aggressing its neighbor.
Rather, we need to continue the pressure day by day with the sanctions and economic pressure. That's where peace can begin.
Where the aggressor understands that they will pay the price for their aggression.
Thank you very much, and I'll give the floor to Ms. Ridel.
I Since February 2022,
Putin has prevented a ceasefire. He's done it 16 times.
He's claimed to want to negotiate 16 times,
but he has Prevented one condition from being put in place to allow that ceasefire.
He's continued to attack every day, and it's obvious Russia triggered this war, but Ukraine is the victim today.
The priority is to have a ceasefire, but Russia has no intention to end this war.
Every time that Putin claims he wants to negotiate, it's to improve his negotiating position and shore up his position.
Russia in Abu Dhabi has said that it will not give up any of the territory it's stolen,
and we as the EU are absent, and we hear that there is a new request for a new security architecture. Let's not be naive. Let's act.
We must continue to exert pressure on Putin and his cronies so that they negotiate.
We mustn't go towards them or give ground as Trump has done, and we mustn't have any kind of referendum in Donbass.
We mustn't let these two brutes, Putin and Trump, negotiate about the future of our continent.
Thank you, colleagues, it is hard to believe that after more than 4 years since the start of the invasion of Ukraine,
we keep discussing the same more sanctions against Russia,
more weapons to Ukraine, and sabotage any efforts to a peace solution.
There was a hope to put an end to the conflict in 2022,
but the European countries torpedoed these efforts in exchange for more conflict, and since then we've been doing the same.
The USA has started negotiating with Russia, and despite the efforts to isolate Russia,
Russia deepens its ties with African and Asian countries. And gained profit.
How many people had to be killed so that someone could earn money on war?
We could have had a ceasefire long ago.
Instead, we keep repeating the same phrases about sanctions that we know don't work and only make Europeans' lives expensive and destroy the competitiveness of Europe.
This is something to think about, dear colleagues. Nasima. The next speaker is Mr. Winkler. Thank you Over EUR 200 billion.
That is how much European money has flooded into Russia through energy purchases since the full-scale invasion began. Think about it.
It's more than the EU and all its Member States have provided in aid to Ukraine in its fight against Russia.
Every single one of those euros has help by the missiles and drones that rain down on Ukrainian cities.
It's time to show what Europe is about no more loopholes,
no more getting around sanctions, not one single euro to Putin's war chest.
War ends when it is no longer profitable. So let's make the charts look different.
Let's make them show that we support Ukraine rather than Russia,
and let's make the charts coming from the front show that Russia is losing the war. Thank you. Sorry, Jaquimraoprosim, panicolino Henriksson Nixapati.
Thank you, Russia is continuing its brutal war in Ukraine every single day,
and unfortunately civilians are dying every single day.
I note that the far right doesn't seem to understand that, that Putin could have stopped this war at any moment. Now Europe needs to show its strength. We need to strengthen the sanctions.
We need to ensure that Russian gas and oil does not flow into Europe.
We also need to ensure that we Use the frozen Russian assets and we need to ensure that Putin and Russia.
Cannot achieve a propaganda victory in the ice hockey World Championships.
Finland has has stated clearly we will not play against Russia,
Denmark, mark, Norway and Sweden have have followed suit.
But we also need to ensure that we should not allow tourist visas to Russian citizens and certainly not the athletes going to the ice hockey World Championships.
That's in the interest of the whole of Europe. Thank you very much.
I give the floor to the last speaker, Mr. Oliveira. Thank you, Commissioner Albuquerque. We shouldn't focus on sanctions and war.
We need to build peace and collective security as political and diplomatic measures.
We believe that the principles of the Helsinki final act are a solid basis for political and diplomatic action,
which is currently sorely lacking. You don't end war with more war.
Focusing on sanctions will just drag out this confrontation and war.
It is the people who bear the costs of this war, with higher.
Energy costs, with lost jobs, with weakening of the industrial fabric.
There's a lack of housing and there's a lack of healthcare and education.
The EU's policy has just helped the millionaire arms industry, and it is belligerent.
The EU will continue to sacrifice Ukraine's for profits,
and that also has a negative impact on European people.
Confrontation and escalation of war is not the way forward.
For the Commission, I would like to give the floor to Commissioner Albuquerque. Please, the floor is yours.